Commercial Eclipse plugin

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Jan Kotek wrote:
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:

Go to it dude ... I can't wait ... ;-)

Cheers,

Miles

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I would greatly prefer a Free or OSS plugin. I wouldn't use a
commercial one. If it would only take 6 months, why not improve the
existing plugin?

I wish you luck in any case; lack of automated refactoring support is
keeping us from using Scala where I work. If you made a commercial
plugin that accelerated work on the free one, that would be great.

Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
> * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
> * implicit conversions aware code assistant
> * refactoring across java and scala code
> * java to scala conversion wizards
> * Lift support
> * ScalaTest support
> * XML and parsers support
> * code generation wizards
> * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it? Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin, but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
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I would not. While Scala is a nice language, Java is still good enough
for 99% of tasks and provides a mature IDE for free.

Linas.

On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 00:51 +0100, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
> * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
> * implicit conversions aware code assistant
> * refactoring across java and scala code
> * java to scala conversion wizards
> * Lift support
> * ScalaTest support
> * XML and parsers support
> * code generation wizards
> * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it? Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin, but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan

You and I have different measures of "good enough".

2009/9/9 Linas :
> I would not. While Scala is a nice language, Java is still good enough
> for 99% of tasks and provides a mature IDE for free.
>
> Linas.
>
> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 00:51 +0100, Jan Kotek wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> missing good IDE support.
>>
>> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> have all bells and whistles:
>>
>>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> views, searches etc)
>>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>  * Lift support
>>  * ScalaTest support
>>  * XML and parsers support
>>  * code generation wizards
>>  * etc...
>>
>> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> open-source after around 3 years.
>>
>> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>
>> Jan
>
>

If you really could deliver a "stable, bugless and fast" IDE plugin, i
had absolutely no problem investing in it. I wouldnt mind if its
closed source, as long as there is a long-term strategy behind it.

Scala has become our main dev language but its IDE plugins are of
rather poor quality at the moment unfortunately. (referring to
experience with the eclipse 2.7.5 and idea 8/9 plugins)

However i think it would be a lot more clever to support Miles Sabins
efforts on the new Eclipse plugin.

Maybe there are other ways to support the development the plugin -
thinking about corporate sponsors and such...

M

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>  * Lift support
>  * ScalaTest support
>  * XML and parsers support
>  * code generation wizards
>  * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>

On 09/09/2009 01:51 AM, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
...

I you'd ask me: the 40 euros wouldn't be a problem for many developers,
if you can really make such a great thing. But then we'd all like to
see the source open. You know the usual arguments I guess.

Bram Bouwens

If you really could deliver a "stable, bugless and fast" IDE plugin, i
had absolutely no problem investing in it. I wouldnt mind if its
closed source, as long as there is a long-term strategy behind it.

Scala has become our main dev language but its IDE plugins are of
rather poor quality at the moment unfortunately. (referring to
experience with the eclipse 2.7.5 and idea 8/9 plugins)

However i think it would be a lot more clever to support Miles Sabins
efforts on the new Eclipse plugin.

Maybe there are other ways to support the development the plugin -
thinking about corporate sponsors and such...

M

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>  * Lift support
>  * ScalaTest support
>  * XML and parsers support
>  * code generation wizards
>  * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>

You say you have recently discovered Scala. I admire how fast you can
have a grasp of how long it would take to implement all the features
you mention. Developing this kind of tool, I reckon, needs a good deal
of understanding of the Scala compiler. IIRC even Martin Odersky
himself got involved in adding some hooks to the compiler so that the
existing Eclipse plugin (led by Miles Sabin) could be refactored to
become more stable. (Please correct me if I got that wrong).

I'm also curious why is it going to be open sourced after three years,
and not before or later.

In short, I personally have the impression there are too many guesses.
But I wish you very good luck!

Francisco

2009/9/9 Jan Kotek :
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>  * Lift support
>  * ScalaTest support
>  * XML and parsers support
>  * code generation wizards
>  * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>

If it was better than the IDEA plugin and Miles' Eclipse plugin, I
would consider buying it. How sane the restrictions on use are
matters too.. for example, I use two computers at the same time
normally, but wouldn't want to buy two licences.

2009/9/9 francisco treacy :
> You say you have recently discovered Scala. I admire how fast you can
> have a grasp of how long it would take to implement all the features
> you mention. Developing this kind of tool, I reckon, needs a good deal
> of understanding of the Scala compiler. IIRC even Martin Odersky
> himself got involved in adding some hooks to the compiler so that the
> existing Eclipse plugin (led by Miles Sabin) could be refactored to
> become more stable. (Please correct me if I got that wrong).
>
> I'm also curious why is it going to be open sourced after three years,
> and not before or later.
>
> In short, I personally have the impression there are too many guesses.
> But I wish you very good luck!
>
> Francisco
>
>
> 2009/9/9 Jan Kotek :
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> missing good IDE support.
>>
>> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> have all bells and whistles:
>>
>>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> views, searches etc)
>>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>  * Lift support
>>  * ScalaTest support
>>  * XML and parsers support
>>  * code generation wizards
>>  * etc...
>>
>> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> open-source after around 3 years.
>>
>> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>

We already have m2eclipse or IAM to compile a maven project in a subversion repository accessed via subversive or subclipse using either the JavaHL or SVNKit provider on eclipse 3.4 or 3.5 and now we'd have a choice of Scala compiler plugins too?
That gives us 32 possible development environments that people could be using.  All of which can justifiably be called "scala on eclipse", and that's without considering other plugins or version control systems.
Disagreement can often be a good thing and it does lead to better designs, but the proliferation of either/or choices in the world of Eclipse plugins has now gone beyond a joke.
Please, feel free to disagree with Miles about some of his work, but do so within the existing open source plugin so that we can all benefit from a bit of consistency in a world that is already far too fragmented. If you then choose to offer additional bells and whistles for a fee I'm sure that you'll find a willing audience, but our top priority right now *has* to be getting the basics in ASAP.
I for one would be very interested to see a java->scala converter, or a visual designer that works against xscalawt or scala.swing


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Ricky Clarkson <ricky.clarkson@gmail.com> wrote:

If it was better than the IDEA plugin and Miles' Eclipse plugin, I
would consider buying it.  How sane the restrictions on use are
matters too.. for example, I use two computers at the same time
normally, but wouldn't want to buy two licences.

2009/9/9 francisco treacy <francisco.treacy@gmail.com>:
> You say you have recently discovered Scala. I admire how fast you can
> have a grasp of how long it would take to implement all the features
> you mention. Developing this kind of tool, I reckon, needs a good deal
> of understanding of the Scala compiler. IIRC even Martin Odersky
> himself got involved in adding some hooks to the compiler so that the
> existing Eclipse plugin (led by Miles Sabin) could be refactored to
> become more stable. (Please correct me if I got that wrong).
>
> I'm also curious why is it going to be open sourced after three years,
> and not before or later.
>
> In short, I personally have the impression there are too many guesses.
> But I wish you very good luck!
>
> Francisco
>
>
> 2009/9/9 Jan Kotek <opencoeli@gmail.com>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> missing good IDE support.
>>
>> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> have all bells and whistles:
>>
>>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> views, searches etc)
>>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>  * Lift support
>>  * ScalaTest support
>>  * XML and parsers support
>>  * code generation wizards
>>  * etc...
>>
>> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> open-source after around 3 years.
>>
>> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>



--
Ricky Clarkson
Java Programmer, AD Holdings
+44 1565 770804
Skype: ricky_clarkson
Google Talk: ricky.clarkson@gmail.com

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:48 AM, francisco treacy <francisco.treacy@gmail.com> wrote:

You say you have recently discovered Scala. I admire how fast you can
have a grasp of how long it would take to implement all the features
you mention. Developing this kind of tool, I reckon, needs a good deal
of understanding of the Scala compiler. IIRC even Martin Odersky
himself got involved in adding some hooks to the compiler so that the
existing Eclipse plugin (led by Miles Sabin) could be refactored to
become more stable. (Please correct me if I got that wrong).

Caoyuan went from nothing to a usable NetBeans plugin for Scala in 4 months and he was working on other projects at the time and had no prior Scala experience.
Ilya got a stable IntelliJ plugin working in less than 6 months... and he wrote a complete Scala parser in that time along with building wiring between IntelliJ's way of viewing the world and Scala's way of viewing the world.
I don't think 6 months is out of the question for a working Eclipse plugin.  It's been done before by people with deep expertise in their IDE platform. 

I'm also curious why is it going to be open sourced after three years,
and not before or later.

In short, I personally have the impression there are too many guesses.
But I wish you very good luck!

Francisco


2009/9/9 Jan Kotek <opencoeli@gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>  * Lift support
>  * ScalaTest support
>  * XML and parsers support
>  * code generation wizards
>  * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>

--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

David,

1. He said comparable to JDT, which is a different matter than merely 'working'.

2. I agree completely (other than point 1), there's far too much, how
did Paul say it, "stop energy" flying around.

2009/9/9 David Pollak :
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:48 AM, francisco treacy
> wrote:
>>
>> You say you have recently discovered Scala. I admire how fast you can
>> have a grasp of how long it would take to implement all the features
>> you mention. Developing this kind of tool, I reckon, needs a good deal
>> of understanding of the Scala compiler. IIRC even Martin Odersky
>> himself got involved in adding some hooks to the compiler so that the
>> existing Eclipse plugin (led by Miles Sabin) could be refactored to
>> become more stable. (Please correct me if I got that wrong).
>
> Caoyuan went from nothing to a usable NetBeans plugin for Scala in 4 months
> and he was working on other projects at the time and had no prior Scala
> experience.
> Ilya got a stable IntelliJ plugin working in less than 6 months... and he
> wrote a complete Scala parser in that time along with building wiring
> between IntelliJ's way of viewing the world and Scala's way of viewing the
> world.
> I don't think 6 months is out of the question for a working Eclipse plugin.
>  It's been done before by people with deep expertise in their IDE platform.
>
>>
>> I'm also curious why is it going to be open sourced after three years,
>> and not before or later.
>>
>> In short, I personally have the impression there are too many guesses.
>> But I wish you very good luck!
>>
>> Francisco
>>
>>
>> 2009/9/9 Jan Kotek :
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> > missing good IDE support.
>> >
>> > I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> > comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> > have all bells and whistles:
>> >
>> >  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> > views, searches etc)
>> >  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>> >  * refactoring across java and scala code
>> >  * java to scala conversion wizards
>> >  * Lift support
>> >  * ScalaTest support
>> >  * XML and parsers support
>> >  * code generation wizards
>> >  * etc...
>> >
>> > Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> > you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> > non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> > open-source after around 3 years.
>> >
>> > I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> > from scratch.
>> >
>> > Thanks for comments and ideas.
>> >
>> > Jan
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>

Hey all,

On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 14:25 +0100, Ricky Clarkson wrote:
> David,
>
> 1. He said comparable to JDT, which is a different matter than merely 'working'.
>
> 2. I agree completely (other than point 1), there's far too much, how
> did Paul say it, "stop energy" flying around.

One additional item is that the license for the Scala IDE for Eclipse is
very lenient. That means that a lot of code can be reused, if necessary.

Best,
Ismael

Thanks David for the clarification. Still, I can't help being skeptic
when I read "bells and whistles" next to "stable, bugless and fast".
Usually many features means many half-assed features, even more when
it's apparently one developer doing that in 6 months. Sorry.

As someone else already suggested, in this case I would get familiar
with Miles work joining forces for the existing open source project
and perhaps create some commercial enterprisey plugin (like converting
Java to Scala) on top of it - or sell support.

Francisco

2009/9/9 Ricky Clarkson :
> David,
>
> 1. He said comparable to JDT, which is a different matter than merely 'working'.
>
> 2. I agree completely (other than point 1), there's far too much, how
> did Paul say it, "stop energy" flying around.
>
> 2009/9/9 David Pollak :
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:48 AM, francisco treacy
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You say you have recently discovered Scala. I admire how fast you can
>>> have a grasp of how long it would take to implement all the features
>>> you mention. Developing this kind of tool, I reckon, needs a good deal
>>> of understanding of the Scala compiler. IIRC even Martin Odersky
>>> himself got involved in adding some hooks to the compiler so that the
>>> existing Eclipse plugin (led by Miles Sabin) could be refactored to
>>> become more stable. (Please correct me if I got that wrong).
>>
>> Caoyuan went from nothing to a usable NetBeans plugin for Scala in 4 months
>> and he was working on other projects at the time and had no prior Scala
>> experience.
>> Ilya got a stable IntelliJ plugin working in less than 6 months... and he
>> wrote a complete Scala parser in that time along with building wiring
>> between IntelliJ's way of viewing the world and Scala's way of viewing the
>> world.
>> I don't think 6 months is out of the question for a working Eclipse plugin.
>>  It's been done before by people with deep expertise in their IDE platform.
>>
>>>
>>> I'm also curious why is it going to be open sourced after three years,
>>> and not before or later.
>>>
>>> In short, I personally have the impression there are too many guesses.
>>> But I wish you very good luck!
>>>
>>> Francisco
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/9/9 Jan Kotek :
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>>> > missing good IDE support.
>>> >
>>> > I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>>> > comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>>> > have all bells and whistles:
>>> >
>>> >  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>>> > views, searches etc)
>>> >  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>> >  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>> >  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>> >  * Lift support
>>> >  * ScalaTest support
>>> >  * XML and parsers support
>>> >  * code generation wizards
>>> >  * etc...
>>> >
>>> > Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>>> > you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>>> > non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>>> > open-source after around 3 years.
>>> >
>>> > I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>>> > from scratch.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>> >
>>> > Jan
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ricky Clarkson
> Java Programmer, AD Holdings
> +44 1565 770804
> Skype: ricky_clarkson
> Google Talk: ricky.clarkson@gmail.com
>

Here at LinkedIn, there's substantial interest in Scala. Even though engineers are given a choice of IDEs to use (the company will pay for IntelliJ licenses), most people strongly prefer to use Eclipse. I know of several people who want to learn and use Scala, but are unhappy with the current state of the Eclipse plugin and are unwilling to learn a new IDE (IntelliJ) to get better Scala support. If there were a commercial Scala plugin for Eclipse that was better than the open source plugin, I imagine a few people here would want to use it.

--j

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Jan Kotek <opencoeli@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
missing good IDE support.

I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
have all bells and whistles:

 * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
views, searches etc)
 * implicit conversions aware code assistant
 * refactoring across java and scala code
 * java to scala conversion wizards
 * Lift support
 * ScalaTest support
 * XML and parsers support
 * code generation wizards
 * etc...

Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
open-source after around 3 years.

I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
from scratch.

Thanks for comments and ideas.

Jan

Hi,

responses were good and I think there is place for commercial plugin.
So I will start coding. First milestone should be in one month. I will
keep you updated.

Regards,
Jan

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>  * Lift support
>  * ScalaTest support
>  * XML and parsers support
>  * code generation wizards
>  * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>

On Wednesday September 9 2009, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> responses were good and I think there is place for commercial plugin.
> So I will start coding. First milestone should be in one month. I
> will keep you updated.
>
> Regards,
> Jan

How about we start a pool on when the first milestone, the first beta
and the first final release occur?

RRS

looking forward to it.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Jan Kotek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> responses were good and I think there is place for commercial plugin.
> So I will start coding. First milestone should be in one month. I will
> keep you updated.
>
> Regards,
> Jan
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Jan Kotek wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> missing good IDE support.
>>
>> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> have all bells and whistles:
>>
>>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> views, searches etc)
>>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>  * Lift support
>>  * ScalaTest support
>>  * XML and parsers support
>>  * code generation wizards
>>  * etc...
>>
>> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> open-source after around 3 years.
>>
>> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>

My first post to the group, hope this works!
As an Eclipse user who very nearly sprang for IdeaJ because of its (IMO) better Scala support, I'd have no problem with giving Jan (or anyone) 40€ for a bells-and-whistles, batteries-included Eclipse plugin that's better than what the Scala community comes up with by the same target date. It's a safe bet for me, because I get to pick the winner and only stand to benefit. I think the Scala community as a whole will benefit in the same way. Competition is usually good for FOSS projects and I've seen no indication so far that what Jan plans to do is in any way unsavory.
So far, I'm holding back on Scala because, as a -so far- mediocre Scala developer, I would much rather enjoy the assistance of the training wheels I'm used to from the Eclipse JDT. Just to put a little more pressure on Jan, I'd like to point out that I plan to "seriously get into" Scala hacking as soon as one tool - either his or the current one - reaches the "good enough" stage, which will be arbitrarily determined by me. I am certainly expecting stuff like syntax highlighting, error marking (with updates when I fix the error!), code completion and a handful of refactorings, and rock-stable operation. Once I adopt a plugin, though, I will most likely stick with it forever. 
Realistically, I expect the "mainstream effort" to reach this point first, hopefully with the 2.8 release, but I'm very willing to be pleasantly surprised.
Happy hacking to everyone!
-Carl-

Jan Kotek wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles: [...]

I *strongly* doubt you could do that in as little as six months,
especially taking into account you just "recently discovered" Scala. But
maybe we have a new Mozart of IDE coding out there, who knows?

If you think you can contribute, you should really try to support Miles
Sabin. If you want closed source---keep the source closed, I wouldn't
mind. I'd be willing to pay some money for a good Scala plug-in.
Needless to say, I'd also pay for such a plug-in if it was open-source.

@ Miles: I just noticed that "Open Type" and "Open Declaration" greatly
improved. But "Organize Imports" gives me an "Unexpected error in
organize imports. See log for details. AST must not be null" Anyway,
thanks a lot for your efforts, it's good to see things evolving!

---Phil

You know, it can be commercial *and* open source.  I'd certainly pay for a good plugin, even if I weren't legally forced to.
Still, I think it would make far more sense for you to collaborate with the existing Eclipse plugin team.
Ian.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Jan Kotek <opencoeli@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

responses were good and I think there is place for commercial plugin.
So I will start coding. First milestone should be in one month. I will
keep you updated.

Regards,
Jan

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Jan Kotek<opencoeli@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>  * Lift support
>  * ScalaTest support
>  * XML and parsers support
>  * code generation wizards
>  * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>

--
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: ian@uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674

Hello,

Occasionally when Scala Eclipse IDE encounters non compiling code, it
throws various sorts exceptions in scala.tools.nsc.... (usually
something about elements having cyclic references).

Since those exceptions do not get caught, they prevent scala editor from
saving or worse yet from opening (goes away if you clean the project).

It would be nice to simply catch all compiler related exceptions at some
early point in editor and log them. This would still make exceptions
visible, but remove the tainting of the editor.

Linas.

Hi Linas,

On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 16:28 +0200, Linas wrote:
> It would be nice to simply catch all compiler related exceptions at some
> early point in editor and log them. This would still make exceptions
> visible, but remove the tainting of the editor.

I agree. Ideally, if an exception is thrown during compilation the IDE
should:

(1) Create an error marker saying that a compiler error occurred (maybe
suggesting the user to clean the project).

(2) Log it in the error log.

(3) Allow other operations (like saving) to continue.

Best,
Ismael

P.S. When you want to start a new thread, please do not reply to an
existing message as that messes up the threading.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Linas wrote:
> Occasionally when Scala Eclipse IDE encounters non compiling code, it
> throws various sorts exceptions in scala.tools.nsc.... (usually
> something about elements having cyclic references).

If these relate to trunk/2.8 could you create a ticket in Trac for them.

Thanks ...

Cheers,

Miles

Doubtfully, because the code being compiled is complex and I have no
idea what exactly causes the exception. Next time one starts popping up
I'll try to investigate.

Linas.

On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 14:31 +0000, Miles Sabin wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Linas wrote:
> > Occasionally when Scala Eclipse IDE encounters non compiling code, it
> > throws various sorts exceptions in scala.tools.nsc.... (usually
> > something about elements having cyclic references).
>
> If these relate to trunk/2.8 could you create a ticket in Trac for them.
>
> Thanks ...
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Miles
>

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Linas wrote:
> Doubtfully, because the code being compiled is complex and I have no
> idea what exactly causes the exception. Next time one starts popping up
> I'll try to investigate.

A ticket with the stacktrace would be helpful. If you're able to
isolate a construct which causes these fairly reliably then that would
be even better.

Cheers,

Miles

Hello janek,

your initiative is _very_ welcome. If you can provide the community the
plugin as described, I will certainly buy it.

I and many people in my company are not using Scala in serious projects
simply because of the lack of a good IDE support. This is, in my opinion,
the weakest point of Scala until now.

Marcos Ackel

janek wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
> missing good IDE support.
>
> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
> have all bells and whistles:
>
> * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
> views, searches etc)
> * implicit conversions aware code assistant
> * refactoring across java and scala code
> * java to scala conversion wizards
> * Lift support
> * ScalaTest support
> * XML and parsers support
> * code generation wizards
> * etc...
>
> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
> you pay for it? Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
> open-source after around 3 years.
>
> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin, but I would rather start
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>
> Jan
>
>

> Hello janek,
>
> your initiative is _very_ welcome. If you can provide the community the
> plugin as described, I will certainly buy it.
>
> I and many people in my company are not using Scala in serious projects
> simply because of the lack of a good IDE support. This is, in my opinion,
> the weakest point of Scala until now.

I believe that someone able to write a good Eclipse plug should in the
first attempt to collaborate with existing teams. Janek broadly
announced a new Eclipse full-fledged plug, ``with all bells and
whistles," to be there within a couple of months, so to say, but already
canceled his announcement. Looks like he was talking loud but saying,
well, not a lot. Worse, it looks like he didn't even know what he was
talking about.

Miles is doing a great job, he always willingly answers every mail from
every user. His plug improves on a daily basis. The only thing I don't
understand is why the team is apparently so small. There are so many
good IDE coders out there---why is the interest in writing a good Scala
plug for Eclipse so small?

The day it is there, together with Call Hierarchy, Refactoring, Scaladoc
warnings, etc., all that stuff, I promise everyone, I will pay > 100
Euro for it, and I guess I will not be the only one, so there is quite a
lot of money to earn in this field. Of course Eclipse users haven gotten
used to getting everything for free, but in the case of SDT I think I
will worship the effort with good money.

---Phil

In a separate email, he announced that he had discontinued his work
because of the open-sourcing of IntelliJ IDEA.

2009/11/19 M.Ackel :
>
> Hello janek,
>
> your initiative is _very_ welcome. If you can provide the community the
> plugin as described, I will certainly buy it.
>
> I and many people in my company are not using Scala in serious projects
> simply because of the lack of a good IDE support. This is, in my opinion,
> the weakest point of Scala until now.
>
> Marcos Ackel
>
>
>
>
> janek wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> missing good IDE support.
>>
>> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> have all bells and whistles:
>>
>>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> views, searches etc)
>>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>  * Lift support
>>  * ScalaTest support
>>  * XML and parsers support
>>  * code generation wizards
>>  * etc...
>>
>> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> open-source after around 3 years.
>>
>> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-scala-tools--Commercial-Eclipse-plugin-tp25356151...
> Sent from the Scala - Tools mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

On Thursday November 19 2009, M.Ackel wrote:
> Hello janek,
>
> ...
>
> I and many people in my company are not using Scala in serious
> projects simply because of the lack of a good IDE support. This is,
> in my opinion, the weakest point of Scala until now.

What IDE functionality constitutes the minimum set you require to make
Scala development feasible in your organization?

> Marcos Ackel

Randall Schulz

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 21:41 +0100, Philip Köster wrote:
...
>
> Miles is doing a great job, he always willingly answers every mail from
> every user. His plug improves on a daily basis. The only thing I don't
> understand is why the team is apparently so small. There are so many
> good IDE coders out there---why is the interest in writing a good Scala
> plug for Eclipse so small?

Well, I had this idea of writing a Scala project using the Eclipse IDE
and improving the plugin as I encounter the problems. But honestly, it's
kind of hard to understand what all the stuff in a plugin code base
does, and the fact that none of it is commented does not help either.

Some high level explanation of how the plugin is intended to work, what
are the main parts and where to find them would really help for people
who want to contribute, but do not have a lot of time to reverse
engineer the high level behavior of plugin from source code.

On the other hand, maybe I'm just too stupid/lazy to understand the
stuff.

Linas.

> What IDE functionality constitutes the minimum set you require to make
> Scala development feasible in your organization?

May I answer? I need to `F3' in every declaration to see what is going
on. (In Eclipse. `F3' is `Open Declaration.) I need to be able to
refactor, that is, rename methods, rename packages. I need `Organize
Imports', I need a working Scaladoc view (it's the Scaladoc tool that
needs improving, that's not Miles's fault), stuff that like that, some
things I desperately need but don't come to my mind right now. And of
course Eclipse shouldn't hang or eat all of my CPU and RAM.)

When I first met Scala, which was three months ago, the situation was
kinda hopeless. But I know Miles takes every bug report very seriously,
and a lot of things have improved. Today, Nov. 19, I find Miles's plug
very usable, but this time scalac screws it all up on the command line. :)

Whose job is that? Paul Phillips seems to know everything, so what is
this new exception all about, and is there any cure in sight?

Best
---Ph.

What about the people who don't want to use IDEA?

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Ricky Clarkson <ricky.clarkson@gmail.com> wrote:

In a separate email, he announced that he had discontinued his work
because of the open-sourcing of IntelliJ IDEA.

2009/11/19 M.Ackel <mvackel@yahoo.com>:
>
> Hello janek,
>
> your initiative is _very_ welcome. If you can provide the community the
> plugin as described, I will certainly buy it.
>
> I and many people in my company are not using Scala in serious projects
> simply because of the lack of a good IDE support. This is, in my opinion,
> the weakest point of Scala until now.
>
> Marcos Ackel
>
>
>
>
> janek wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently discovered Scala and I was impressed. But it is really
>> missing good IDE support.
>>
>> I have some experience with Eclipse plugin development. Scala plugin
>> comparable to JDT would take me around 6 months to write. It would
>> have all bells and whistles:
>>
>>  * full Scala support (syntax, auto complete, wizards, hierarchy
>> views, searches etc)
>>  * implicit conversions aware code assistant
>>  * refactoring across java and scala code
>>  * java to scala conversion wizards
>>  * Lift support
>>  * ScalaTest support
>>  * XML and parsers support
>>  * code generation wizards
>>  * etc...
>>
>> Question is: if this plug-in would be stable, bugless and fast, would
>> you pay for it?  Price around 40 euro per developer, free for
>> non-commercial use. Plug-in will be closed source, but possible became
>> open-source after around 3 years.
>>
>> I know there is already one Eclipse plugin,  but I would rather start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks for comments and ideas.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-scala-tools--Commercial-Eclipse-plugin-tp25356151p26421469.html
> Sent from the Scala - Tools mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>



--
Ricky Clarkson
Java and Scala Programmer, AD Holdings
+44 1565 770804
Skype: ricky_clarkson
Google Talk: ricky.clarkson@gmail.com
Google Wave: ricky.clarkson@googlewave.com

On Thursday 19 November 2009 22:08:06 Philip Köster wrote:
> May I answer? I need to `F3' in every declaration to see what is going
> on. (In Eclipse. `F3' is `Open Declaration.)

I'm working with the SVN version, and 'open declaration' seems to work better
every day.

> I need to be able to
> refactor, that is, rename methods, rename packages.

I'm working on that, but it's a lot of work, so don't expect it too soon.

Regards
Mirko